Understanding the Health Impacts of Noise - L'impact du bruit sur la santé mentale

Julien (nonoise.club): Noise is second environmental of morbidity in world after CO2. And by morbidity, do only hear mortality, also serious or chronic The link between noise and health is still very unknown, too unknown. However, noise accompanies us throughout our lives. is present in every moment of our daily life, morning to bed, night. It impacts our sensory our mental and physical And for this, I have the pleasure of welcoming Sandra Huret Sandra is psychotherapist and specialist on mental health and sensory disorders, especially the impact of noise. Hello Sandra!

SANDRA HURET: Bonjour, Julien.

Julien (nonoise.club): It's crazy how much noise there on physical and mental Tell us all about

SANDRA HURET: Yes, very important. takes proportions that increase year by year.

Julien (nonoise.club): You are a psychotherapist and a mental on sensory disorders. think that for the listeners who are in sound pollution and noise, they also need an explanation. Can you explain your profession and where you come from in career to get here?

SANDRA HURET: Mm-hmm. All right. Yes, absolutely. First all, I am musician, I am pianist at the beginning. The sound, we will not say the noise, but the music has always been a guide, conductor in my life, so I always been very sensitive. And maybe the is there somewhere. But in any case, my journey is psychology. After my studies in psychology, I wanted to specialize in in sensory because at the beginning of my practice I accompanied of musicians who had achofenes, had problems with hearing health and lot of stress and anxiety and I didn't how to help them. So I followed specializations, I was interested in... to everything that affects the sphere of mental health in relation to hearing from specialization to specialization, I have become the mental and sensory and emotional today.

Julien (nonoise.club): When I talk about noise, many people tell me that yes, I'm right, there's a problem with noise, but how do you the impact of noise? Do you have figures or anecdotes from your job and your expertise that you have been to accumulate over time?

SANDRA HURET: Mm. Yes, I have I can refer to a survey that was published year, in September 2024. It survey conducted by the Association of the National Audition which, together several health specialists, have worked to conduct this survey. The results are quite eloquent, since we are to talk about In of work, in relation to quality of life at work, estimate that 62 % of the assets are affected by noise and noise from the noise of work. So it's more than half, it's huge. Nothing more, it leaves us little speechless, it's the case to say, since we are very impacted. And here we are only about the work If we have add after all the problems of noise on a basis, whether at home, because there is too much noise outside, we sleep badly because at night there are alarms that trigger etc. etc. And that the next day we go to work in a toxic for health and I don't think only about mental but also global health, because this study also highlights this. And big observation to consider is that until today, until this study or any case until five years will say...

Julien (nonoise.club): way.

SANDRA HURET: We considered that the noise and the impact of noise on mental health was rather the senior's From a certain age, if was an auditory could indeed be impacted by the auditory And there are still numbers that are eloquent. On this same study, the JNA 63 % of the under 35s are disabled.

Julien (nonoise.club): Yes, vulnerable

SANDRA HURET: 65 % of 35-49 years old and 59 % of over 50 years old. So we are still around 50 and more, maybe 60, but it would be more over 50 years would be less impacted. It would seem that the less 35 years would be very, very impacted. And less than 35 years, having our auditory sensory system impacted, it's lot of consequences for years.

Julien (nonoise.club): You talk about health at work, we think very quickly about office life, open space, etc. But finally, health at work also affects, we talk in other episodes, for example, staff of the creche who suffer lot from noise, we also a lot about the industry, the blue collar workers who also lot from noise. So it's not just the noise of open space.

SANDRA HURET: Wait, wait. bien sûr Absolutely. What?

Julien (nonoise.club): even if it does a major What the consequences for mental health? We're about stress. What are the short, medium or long-term

SANDRA HURET: No. Mm-hmm. Bye. Yes, so the consequences, you said it, Julien, the stress in the place, since it impacts our autonomic tends if we want, and so indeed there is a repercussion at the level of stress. And if we consider that the noise will continue, it will generate little by little other problems. If we are stressed, we sleep less well. If we sleep less well, are more tired. So indeed, a system of insomnia, sleep which will impact the mental the psychological, there will be in medium term psychological and in long term physical can go from hypertension to cardiovascular And there it is really, really very problematic. Not to mention that our ears... Yes, sorry.

Julien (nonoise.club): And that's why we talk about morbidity, That's why we talk about morbidity, indeed. And even now we're only about health, yes, mental health, indeed, related to physical And we're not about performance. And when you talk about sleep, we also a lot about performance which can themselves generate other problems in terms of well-being and mental

SANDRA HURET: Absolutely, absolutely. Wait. Yes, sir. Yes, of course. And it's not satisfying, because if we're tired, it will affect our performance, our attention, concentration understanding In a noisy we understand each less, so speak louder, the other speaks louder, and we end up a noise that tires our ears and prevents us from communication and understanding. Working in this environment will obviously affect our abilities and performance. It not only us in psychological also the problem of loss of meaning in relation to work and the ability to work We have highlighted this only this GNA but also other surveys. there was a strong correlation between the auditory pollution and burnout.

Julien (nonoise.club): It's been a while since you've this job or you see patients with mental and sensory disorders?

SANDRA HURET: I have with sensory problems now.

Julien (nonoise.club): 10 years. Do you see an evolution? you Will sound pollution be an amplified in the next decades? How you see this evolution in the next 10

SANDRA HURET: So, if we don't do anything, yes, until now it's only increasing, so I don't see how it will calm down or stop. If we do anything, if we anything in place, if we don't any prevention, I think that in 10 years we will have some problems with hearing certainly serious, from a very young age, it's already you have to know that in the cabinet... I deal with more more teenagers and children who are 10 12 years and who already have hearing with hearing loss. So I didn't have this type of population in my three or four years ago. Yes, ten years certainly not, was still a population. Yes, three or four years yes, two years, I have, let's say, not mainly, but least half number.

Julien (nonoise.club): 10 years ago? And even 3-4 years Acceleration is vertiginous.

SANDRA HURET: of children and adolescents who consult me for acupoints and difficulties of concentration. Sometimes, concentration is not always due to a problem of attention the famous TDA or TDAH, but it also sometimes to a child in a classroom with... I measured it sometimes. I went to meet schools and colleges and I measured with a small application, I measured to show, to raise awareness.

Julien (nonoise.club): Mm-hmm.

SANDRA HURET: I have shown decibels They are very loud, almost like in a train or an airport. And a child can learn, listen and hear in this climate. And teachers will be in pain, as I said earlier.

Julien (nonoise.club): I article during the holidays that explained that there are 1.6 million children in France who have problems with reading learning due to noise. And it's important to remember that the OMS indicates that the comfort level is below 55 decibels. And 55 decibels is very fast. We even have physical from 80 decibels, but even 55 decibels is very, very fast.

SANDRA HURET: Bye! Yes, that's it. Absolutely.

Julien (nonoise.club): So, I was about parties and during the parties... In fact, is also the part of the fireworks and fireworks that have a very, very important generally, start the year already with a trouble or a lack. I will not come back on this subject today. How protect yourself? You were talking about everyday life, finally, work work. How to protect yourself? And maybe three questions in one. Protect yourself, preserve yourself and prepare yourself. Because sometimes you can't protect yourself.

SANDRA HURET: Wait. What? Wait. Wait.

Julien (nonoise.club): It's to be noisy, the guard. We can try to protect ourselves, but it's complicated. Or the classroom where we can't have a helmet that takes away all the noise, need to listen. So how to protect ourselves, to preserve ourselves, prepare for noise.

SANDRA HURET: Mm-hmm. There's your... So, this protection, as individual, is complicated, because, indeed, we will take the example of the classroom again, if we do not allow to set up the idea that if we suffer too much noise, at some point the ear has rest. So, protection is to ensure that there times of rest, times of recovery. for our hearing health. And if we don't put place, it's difficult to protect ourselves. We can also we can't ask the students to come with an anti-noise at school, or with teachers, since there is permanent in my class. It's necessary for learning. So, protect oneself, is to preserve oneself, I want to say, to preserve oneself by saying to I owe in my daily as an individual, of ways to relax my ears. That I relax that I... Here, an acoustic It can be, indeed, by... Already, stop talking, if I want to say, because when we talk, the more there noise, an sound, the more we will speak loudly, and the more our ear, of course, will suffer not only our stronger but also all the noise all around which is inusible. So, protect your thoughts.

Julien (nonoise.club): acoustic

SANDRA HURET: to speak less loudly, to as much as possible to speak less loudly, to preserve the noise, to take some time off the And then, there is all that I certainly of teenagers in ear level, to take quality to pay attention to the music they listen to, to also think that our auditory it goes towards the possibility of a precocious to be place, by force of the solicitation. So what is important to do too is to listen to music with a acoustic, to continue to make our ears work in a fine so as to long-term unfortunately medium-term and therefore maybe play music. in a way music can bring this finesse. Because the big problem is that it's not only a matter of suffering at the level of the sensory system, it's that this sound the noise, can unfortunately trigger a loss of precocious. So not only does our ear suffer, our brain suffers, our body suffers, and addition... The fear is that it is early and therefore it must be kept. There you absolutely. Yes. Yes.

Julien (nonoise.club): which amplifies future problems because we break the ecosystem that was us and that we still to attack and we make it more more vulnerable.

SANDRA HURET: Yes, So have big challenges to to work on how to the health of our ears. preserve ourselves, to protect ourselves, the third element, so you remind me, you told me to protect ourselves and to prepare. So, I have anticipated.

Julien (nonoise.club): Dig on this shit. And ready. And get ready. But you also it. I think the acoustic and you anticipated it, it's very good. We'll stop there for the Q &A. Thank you very much Sandra. I also you that you are the author, the author of a book that has just been at the L'Armatan at the meeting of our sensory system, a odyssey in country of psychotherapy. So don't hesitate, it was released at very beginning of year. So hesitate to and look up.

SANDRA HURET: Mm-hmm. Oui? Tout à fait. Tout à fait. That's what that fit.

Julien (nonoise.club): You can order online. I will the link in the description of the episode. We stop for the Q &A and we move on to discussion Thank you Sandra.

SANDRA HURET: Thank you, Julia.

Julien (nonoise.club): So thank you, you've already given us lot of content on the questions and answers. When I hear you, I a comment that comes to mind, which is that when we talk about vulnerable too, I talk a lot about noise pollution on a basis, and I'm often that it's little heavy It's little heavy everyone is aware it, but it's always very negative. So how do you think to make

SANDRA HURET: Mm-hmm.

Julien (nonoise.club): the noise, we're about noise and pollution, should talk about calm, but fact there is a difference between noise and music, calm and music don't go together, opposite of is not really calm. How do create a positive around that? Do you have tips for that? To talk about noise without being immediately in the negative.

SANDRA HURET: Wait. Great. Wait, wait. So first all, distinguish, as you did very precisely, the noise of the music. The noise is not the music. The noise hurts our ears, hurts our brain, hurts our body. will say that like that. While music does us good. fact, idea is that it by working on our sensory is to say to here, if I have a unpleasant an alarm that I approach, I walk, an alarm starts, it hurts ears. It's a negative which will be harmful to my sensory system, which will put my sensory system and it will have an impact in terms of psychological suffering. On the hand...

Julien (nonoise.club): Oui. But because the noise in particular, well, it noise in particular or is it the momentum where you hear this noise that has an impact?

SANDRA HURET: So, the precise when the noise reaches our ear organ, goes... a loud with very decibels like an alarm, it will lower our cellulose cells in the ear and react to the noise. So it's too loud, it folds. Unfortunately, when it folds, our small cells Well, no, they die. And so, that's why sometimes...

Julien (nonoise.club): I'm Mark.

SANDRA HURET: When it goes down like that, instead we will have a acupoint because there is a trauma, a sensory and the acupoint is set up in this way. So indeed, this noise is very bad for the ear and also very for the brain, which experiences a shock, an emotional Because you also to that in the brain, unpleasant will create an unpleasant Moreover, is in the same place that the sensory

Julien (nonoise.club): Nico.

SANDRA HURET: in the brain, the training of sensory training. And if there an unpleasant will create a behavior, thoughts, a general unpleasant On the hand, to go back to music, music will activate a sensory that will be pleasant. We listen to music that we love, relaxing music, but also music that we like. We will make pleasant emotions and therefore, indeed, will relax the brain, will also the ear and it will calm it down. fact, since the tension, yes.

Julien (nonoise.club): Mm-hmm. Does that a noise cancellation that plays music all time creates positive we remove the noise around and so we feel good after that? Does mean that it's good for health to be with...

SANDRA HURET: Mm-hmm. Oui. Exactement. Tout à fait.

Julien (nonoise.club): whether we in transport or in general. I hear lot of young people saying that they have headphones on all day long, young or younger by the way, but absolutely all day long, until bed. Is that good? Or do we also need to hear our surroundings, beyond security for well-being? To hear nature? Do we need a diversity of noise or sound also to improve this state of health?

SANDRA HURET: Mm-hmm. Right. Bye. Yes, of absolutely need to cut the unpleasant with a helmet to cut this unpleasant and bring unpleasant emotions through the ear, that's excellent. However, all the time, of course, it is very negative because our auditory sensory system is an organ of communication, of the relational. A human being needs to be in this contact. au réel et au relationnel et s'il ne l'est pas ou il ne l'est plus parce qu'il a un casque en permanence, se, j'ai envie de dire presque, il se désocialise. C'est ça évidemment pour la santé mentale, ce n'est pas du tout l'idéal. Oui, on est d'accord.

Julien (nonoise.club): Yes, so we save our ears and our mental and we socialize at the time, so we are not good. I saw that the risk of depression increases by 25 % due to noise, so that's impact, the impact is huge. And when I talk about that around me...

SANDRA HURET: Non, c'est pas bon, non. Bye. Bye.

Julien (nonoise.club): Most of time, we associate noise with the neighborhood, with annoying noise of day. But finally, the impact seems much stronger to by studying the subject on vulnerable

SANDRA HURET: Mm-mm. Wait.

Julien (nonoise.club): children, elderly mentioned it, low income who will also in conditions where we don't live with triple-window, with a view on the ocean, but rather a simple window with a view on the national. And we're getting but it's dramatic because it creates conditions of living, conditions of education for children who are difficult. So you have bring solutions that's why I Nono, they bring solutions to all this. But of is that

SANDRA HURET: to the Okay, yes, of course. Bye.

Julien (nonoise.club): Do you see progress? You tell there is a negative evolution, is more noise, but do you progress in the awareness of noise and fact that it must be protected? And at the time, you see differences between vulnerable that should feel it?

SANDRA HURET: Mm-hmm.

Julien (nonoise.club): And the middle class, where it's great, we all have a helmet, noise on our ears to work in telework on our small office But reality, the majority of population who suffers from is not in this life and is also aware of that. It's a lot of boring but we're more on the subject of discussion. Do you see an improvement? Give us positive

SANDRA HURET: Mm. Right. She must... But fact, it's part of a daily so sometimes we don't even realize that it's invasive, it's impacting, we become passive, we only do what we And these people, I'm they often suffer because they don't have access to devices that can help They don't always have the idea of saying to I'm going to see a therapist who will help me with this. Not only are they used to doing they are often rather isolated and in addition they unfortunately have financial or others that make them a lot of other concerns that invade them and that do not allow them to be helped. Where there may be something to do is at level of schools. Myself, I do interventions at level of public where there all populations, including these children. I know that two years I an intervention in college. indeed, there I had touched a diverse not only privileged but also children from all social And they were extremely, and now I am rather positive, extremely interested. They had asked to do exhibitions with their music their SVT on the ear, on the prevention of noises, etc. and they really liked it, was very invested. And think that by giving them small information, by distributing for example, these little fascicles, these things that are constantly to on the prevention of the ears, the little rule also, for example, you see, with a graduation and behind the decibels in red, it is indeed where it is dangerous. it gives them elements that can then go home and show to parents. And somehow these missions are accomplished. Parents are little preserved. Even if they can't do much, they can least help the children to say, be it's too high-pitched, avoid the helmet, avoid the music too loud, be careful with your ears. We will wander more in nature to be a little more calm. There are little things to do anyway.

Julien (nonoise.club): So, okay, that's good. I wanted to you positive There is a reaction, a different among young people and very young people to this problem of noise. And it's not something I hear often. So I'm happy with It gives confidence. In addition, you gave me a lot of interesting ideas, things that could simplify this notion of prevention, tech ideas that could be interesting to put place, that I will study by hearing your comment.

SANDRA HURET: Oui. Oui. Mm-hmm.

Julien (nonoise.club): So yes, to finish, apparently when we talk about noise we are negative, I a statistic that is terrible, according to the OMS. We lose 1.6 million years of life each year because of noise. So when you say, the impact is not huge, we are resilient and we do with. In fact, no, we don't with. there are lots things to do. What will be interesting is that anyone who listens to this podcast, thank you for listening, for watching this podcast. You have a relationship with noise, have a gene, you have situations in which... So talk about the subject too, let's about positively, humor but not with resilience. There is a lot to do, you must not let it. It's very interesting to that psychotherapists are interested in the subject. On other you are many psychotherapists specialized in the subject, or you are the only one in world.

SANDRA HURET: No, not the only one in hope not. No, there are others and I am psychotherapists. I am preparing a large training to be to offer it not only to psychologists, psychotherapists, but also sometimes to orthophonists, audiotherapists, all the people who can receive in the office of people who suffer from auditory sensory system and who need to...

Julien (nonoise.club): Wait.

SANDRA HURET: Dead.

Julien (nonoise.club): and who already to the patient who made the gesture to go see his psychotherapist. So it's already much easier to talk about this to patient who made the gesture than to motivate someone to see a psychotherapist only on the subject, even if you have do

SANDRA HURET: Yes, absolutely. Of course, we agree. There little reluctance to say, I have a headache, don't any relationship with... I'm not crazy, I don't need to a psychotherapist. There is also this approach and this awareness that a psychotherapist can help, because as soon there is... There are problems with auditory is associated psychological very quickly. But indeed, are too few. So if there are psychotherapists who listen, know that it is very important to help these people who are suffering. And sometimes they can come even because they say they are overworked, tired, depressed. Whereas in fact, if dig a little, we quickly that there is suffering at work because they live in a sound I think of open space, but I also of a patient who was hairdresser and the hair salon she spent her time with the hairdresser, speaking louder because was communication necessary with the clientele, the music, the hairdresser, and she was in pain because that, but she was fully aware it. She just felt sick.

Julien (nonoise.club): point. Often the music, the shower, the bony discussions... So I was going come to the last question, how to contact, but I have a question for you, I hear that, is there a link between other sufferings, particularly strong between other sufferings and noise? I was thinking about the hairdressing salon in its profession, it will also be in a rhythm, chained from one client to the other and it goes very quickly, always standing. So is there a link between this body speak of the position, always standing, always

SANDRA HURET: Mm-hmm. Oui, toujours debout. Mm-hmm.

Julien (nonoise.club): in his office, and what has a weakening of our body, our ability to accept noise in particular or in particular situations, another form of stress, of heavy workload, that's it. Is that how created bridges between two situations?

SANDRA HURET: Yes, yes, so it's empirical, it's in the I haven't done any study on it, but in any case, in the experience I have in the office, I often that people who suffer at ear for example who have acupressure, very often have lot of tension in the skull, cervical at the shoulders, at back, so indeed the posture, for example a person always always in of computer, the majority of the day will create contractures and tensions that will influence our ability to support more. The more are tense, the less we can support the sound and the noise around us. Because we need to put even more attention and it will indeed impact the idea is already that for global health, we must change positions every 20 minutes. It's not always possible. If you're standing, have to sit down, small movements. you're sitting, you have to get up. Normally, we also that the health of the ear will also through our posture, the health of the body, through well-being. have to be relaxed, with the minimum tension. And if this is not case, unfortunately, can impact our sensory system, by suffering, it's our brain. Since we're going generate negative and everywhere.

Julien (nonoise.club): I hope we didn't get too noisy, we went over the 20 minutes, which means we'll have to get up one after the Sandra Urée, thank you very much Sandra for coming on this podcast of No Noise. How can the audience help you? Is there something that the audience, that listeners can do for you?

SANDRA HURET: What can do for me? They can already keep in their ears, thinking about it. It will be precious to know that they have taken into account the fact that the sensory system is precious. We to think that from the moment we walk, we wake up in morning, hear, we see, etc. And we lose the idea that is the hearing, especially since we are about hearing, it is an organ, the organ of the ear is a fragile organ that must be preserved, must be pampered. So pamper your auditory sensory and you will make me I will have the pleasure of knowing that my preventions, my interventions are useful. I hope

Julien (nonoise.club): It's great. Send a message back to Sandra and myself on Nonoise. We need to talk about so that as many people know how to contact you. We can find you on a platform, on LinkedIn.

SANDRA HURET: Oui, d'en parler, tout à fait. So, yes, I'm on LinkedIn, I also a Facebook page, I also a contact list on my website, so can easily find on LinkedIn, Instagram, then my website, and then the Facebook of course. with pleasure, I'm for comments, I'm them, yes, with great pleasure. Yes, absolutely.

Julien (nonoise.club): Okay, we'll all the links on the... Here. Give us feedback, positive or negative, give us feedback and we'll find all the links on the description of the episode. Sandra, thank you much, wish you an excellent year, still in January, I don't know when the episode will be but we're recording in January so I wish you a great year 2025, peaceful, serene, and I hope you can help as many people See soon and thank you for watching the podcast. Bye.

SANDRA HURET: Thank you. Oui. Merci beaucoup. Au revoir, à très bientôt.