Incidents acoustiques : le risque caché des communications tel ou visio - avec Hubert Chartin (Wavetel)

Julien: Welcome to Fighting Noise, the podcast where we explore how unexpected sounds can impact our health, our work and our daily lives. Today, I have Hubert Chartin, a successful entrepreneur and a telecom expert who is interested in, among other things, unknown dangers, sudden noises that can hurt people without warning. We will understand together what these incidents and why they happen, how we can protect as many people Hello Hubert, happy to be in the podcast.

Hubert CHARTIN: Hello Julien, thank you for welcoming me on this extremely interesting and complex and topical

Julien: complex topical and that I discovered through you when we met by chance last November So I'm delighted that we're shooting that episode today. Before we talk about your work, cna I ask you a more personal question ? What is your personal relationship with noise ? A topic we normally work on at Fighting Noise. Is it something you pay attention to, particularly in your day-to-day life ?

Hubert CHARTIN: So for me, an extremely important today's we are confronted with noise in different environments. We have promoted the development of open space and to have worked in open space is something where we realize that people want to isolate Finally, see walls appear, we see people with headsets etc. And myself personally, being a lot on the move, long time ago, I'm on a trip, train, plane, I automatically have an anti-noise headset which allows me to and above all to protect myself with a very clear in fatigue when I long trips. I think I've been it for number of years.

Julien: You've always done it?

Hubert CHARTIN: These subjects that I have always been in. There is the notion of noise and the notion of the quality of communication which is also linked to their vocal So it's been least 15 years that I've been in this subject.

Julien: So you were a bit precursor on the subject, it's awesome. We're to talk about all this and your work, but can you start by introducing yourself? Hubert Chartin, who are you?

Hubert CHARTIN: So, Hubert Chartin, am the MD of the company called Wavetel so, training I worked on different equipment and the leading thread, finally, of everything I have been to do so far, is related to metrology, the science of measurement. So, indeed, I have always worked in this field with the application of mathematical and methods that were called signal at the time, which we will qualify as artificial today with a very, very strong progress in the treatment but it's a little bit the link of everything I've done. And indeed, the important quotes, is the creation of Wavetel, which already 23 years which is specialized in the metrology.

Julien: Mm-hmm. Can you tell us more about Wavetel's today? You sold Wavetel again, but you're still in the lead. What is main of Wavetel today?

Hubert CHARTIN: I never say I sold Wavetel I always I won a major shareholder. I am still shareholder of Wavetel, and Wavetel is above all a team of experts. Our job is the metrology, the science of measurement. We will develop, distribute and implement solutions that are intended to optimize infrastructure and applications in the fields of telecommunications.

Julien: ⁓ Pardon.

Hubert CHARTIN: IT performance, observability, cybersecurity, and photonic, the science of photons. With as a main target call No, necessarily. have a global call are a bit different. We are in field of applications. At level of Wavetel, Wavetel today is a company that is part of the CIMAC so are about group of 1300 people.

Julien: with the callcenters a main target?

Hubert CHARTIN: In France, have 30 people, we have attached an entity in Belgium in which there are also 35 consultants and indeed we have an R &D that specializes in artificial and in particular in audio quality linked to call More broadly, at Wavetel will put the market test test that aim to ⁓ optimize the performance of infrastructures and applications and to be able to develop technologies in advance and to do what we call trouble-touching, shooting, we say. of search for disfunction in naval to ensure the operational of the reasons.

Julien: For the aguerri of Fighting Noise, think the question arises, what is the relationship with the subject Fighting Noise? When we met last November, you were very attentive to the subject of nonoise to the thesis of nonoise, and you told that we to talk, because I work a lot on this notion of noise, and I was very curious, especially very surprised, what you made me in a whole pan. of noise I didn't talking about acoustic So for our audience, for me too, even if now I've learned a little bit what it is, can you explain what acoustic in telecoms?

Hubert CHARTIN: Yes, absolutely. We will come to but it is related to our profession. In our profession, do audit, which is what we call instrument service. Today, are from the best equipment, the best solutions in the market to go and the disfunctioning for our clients. Indeed, our clients, a problem has appeared, I think, about fifteen years ago. that we really made the transition. between what we called commutative RTC, RNIS, towards the IP is to the fact of transporting the way either in circuit we realize a circuit, or in packet like computer data. And when there was this transition, many problems appeared because we had a heterogeneity of infrastructures. That is to had infrastructures in quotes we could say old, based on the operator's and computer infrastructures, all of had to coexist and that gave a certain number of phenomena, incidents that still but which we called acoustic So I think the first problem is related to quality. With mobile have gotten to a deterioration in audio in our communications. On fixed had very little disturbance.

Julien: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Hubert CHARTIN: On mobile we all one point, moved away from our phones because we had noises that were not pleasant, say, low end, not pleasant or not bearable, which are noises that are generated either by networks, it can be customer operator which are generated by these infrastructures in a world which is no wire. First pose is the blackboard.

Julien: Can we compare this to what we call the feedback noise especially on the musical for example?

Hubert CHARTIN: So, feedback noise is one of the disturbances. I will come back because the subject is to able to characterize disturbances to be able to anticipate, detect or even limit So feedback noise is a phenomenon of retro-loop musicians know it very well. And indeed, can have feedback noise carried out by networks. And then the idea is to know who generated feedback noise and how to able to light We came to this subject because indeed, in audits, of call either operators or large French companies. I will try not to mention names because there is a notion of confidentiality. But we found ourselves complex where call teleoperators no longer to Because indeed, they estimated to be exposed to a risk, since we are about acoustic but when the acoustic which are disturbances, finally audio, become serious, we call it acoustic there are a lot of literatures. We have ask ourselves the notion of audio Audio is linked to the perception by the users, there is always a caller and a caller, of the communications outside. And these communications will be altered by acoustic disturbances. What is an acoustic They can be diverse and varied, but it is an electroacoustic it rare, it is unpredictable, and it is conducted. That is say, it happens to through the passing

Julien: Mm-hmm.

Hubert CHARTIN: which received by the headset as you have on your ears. So it's extremely difficult to anticipate, eliminate. And it's rare. We work on call We have developed artificial intelligence where artificial is extremely adapted to this characterization and identification of the phenomena of acoustic We are with recordings of 3 million calls and in a few hours we are able to identify the three communications on the 3 million that have... So, Phenomen does come out of this.

Julien: So that was the next question. You say it's rare, we're about order of a communication over a million different communications.

Hubert CHARTIN: Exactly. origins, it's hard to anticipate how it It's or less important, and indeed, acoustic disturbances in extreme will lead to the loss of the operator's There is a danger.

Julien: A telecommunication on a million, we could say, there are much more serious than that. If it's only once it happens, you say it's deafness, can be, and we talk a lot about in the podcast, it's an exceptional but which can also be temporary.

Hubert CHARTIN: Oui. It's exceptional It's an exceptional

Julien: or least a loss of hearing. We often in this podcast that hearing is 100 % little after beginning of your life and then it decreases and it's very difficult to fix So it's these people who are, ultimately, the day on the phone, they people who suffer a lot in terms of hearing. Do they notice Is a person who has a headset on their ears and who hears this, does she hear the noise? She is exposed to noise. Does she hear this noise all the time?

Hubert CHARTIN: I'm sorry. ⁓

Julien: Mm-hmm.

Hubert CHARTIN: What will cause damage to the ear? There are different types of damage and different types gravity. But the most important is that the ear gets to noisy So if we have a environment, there is a pretension, fact, a doctor would that very well, but from the moment the ear gets used to a loud if a noise little louder, will happen. We will support it, we will say it's little louder.

Julien: Wait.

Hubert CHARTIN: We support it. However, if we the phone quietly discussing with a client in a call and suddenly we have a acoustic incident, it becomes extremely dangerous. Because it is notion of Dirac impulse we go from something very soft to something very strong at once. And is indeed this amplitude, let's which can be damaging. So, indeed, we can have different types of noise, and the noises can be conducted and induced. So it can also be interactions between networks. Okay?

Julien: How will translate this?

Hubert CHARTIN: It can be a carrier, for example, a carrier I have recordings, I could make you to I have recordings, but I if it's going to the Yes, wouldn't want someone to hear them, but typically a carrier. A carrier that in the band passed, tolerated by the helmet, and which comes at some point to make an extremely loud an extremely loud So the headsets protect, be

Julien: We'll send with a warning message or we'll in a link in the comments in the

Hubert CHARTIN: Fortunately, are protections, but are different types of pain and discomfort. So there be, for example, symptoms. We can a little bit on the symptoms, but indeed can be a feeling of deafness. There can be a feeling of fatigue. So we had the case, in a hospital we had one person out 130 who was extremely tired. We couldn't hear anything our ears. So we passed our solution. We developed an intelligence

Julien: Mm-hmm.

Hubert CHARTIN: We have a thesis on the subject and have documents that have been deposited, communications. And indeed, we realized that in the registrations related to this person, there were micro-cuts. And so the brain is sensitive to micro-cuts, even if ear level, we interrupting. So we don't it in the hearing, but we feel it in terms of the fatigue generated.

Julien: We talk a lot about noise, it's very technical I would like to try to it as so that everyone, any listener can understand. So to recap, especially in a call because it's example where have thousands, millions of calls that have been made by people, a call on a million on average is affected by this

Hubert CHARTIN: Yeah.

Julien: this acoustic this technical that we can hear or not, that we can perceive or not. And you were about the person who tired, it's a person who doesn't hear any particular but whose microphones, especially with the unnoticeable through ear, will disturb it, will tire out. And other people who will have an inattentive and which will cause a sound that can be temporary or least a reduction in capacity.

Hubert CHARTIN: you

Julien: the acoustic which I have so far.

Hubert CHARTIN: Yes, but you are not right on the statistics because indeed in call at some point there be external that will make quality deteriorate. And there we will be on rates of much higher And must be to characterize very quickly where the dysfunction And I remind you that dysfunctions can be diverse and varied. It should be noted that we are still on electromagnetic let's and therefore there could be many causes.

Julien: D'accord.

Hubert CHARTIN: A conductor can be disturbed by many elements, especially by we call induction. Induction is a magnetic field. It's the phenomenon that any current induces an electromagnetic and any electromagnetic field induces a current. We have seen problems with acoustic sinew, for example, because we had active equipment that was defective.

Julien: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Hubert CHARTIN: and so it would disturb the and would generate phenomena on the network which were then led by the network, by applications.

Julien: We are about call because it is case of use where are a lot of calls and from a probability of view it is much higher. But ultimately, can these incidents also happen on the smartphone of particular person? Can happen on any telephone or audio

Hubert CHARTIN: I'll tell we got to bad communication. you think about you use your phone, how many times you tell your interlocutor, listen, it's too bad, I'll back. So we got to a deterioration of the quality of communications. had historical where we were on fixed where were really on the digitalization of end-to-end, it was the RNIS in the digital integration of services, where the signal was digitalized end-to-end and indeed we were away from the differences in signal etc. And in fact we had fairly exceptional And on the mobile it's also linked to the complexity of the mobile to the diversity of the technologies used, we got to bad communication, so we tolerated it. After that, it's certain that employees who work in a call it's the responsibility of the employer to make sure they're not at risk. And are number of documents and information on the Internet. If you in the acoustic signal, you will quickly see things arise in the call So the call are very watched. The collaborator in a company whose phone doesn't very well, will he complain to his computer Will he stop working? Maybe not.

Julien: No, but I imagine the number of listeners who will hear this podcast and think, wait, I spend my day calling customers, example, by phone and sometimes in catastrophic In fact, and I can have problems with that, have in in the auditor, people sensitive to... the the noise, the sound. general, say that noise is an unwanted sound, an unwanted sound. In this case, we're about noises that are very low, below 90 decibels, which we usually call limits, which will come to health. The 55 decibels that touch, that are known as average, we could say that 55 decibels all day long tire the human

Hubert CHARTIN: Okay, that's the feeling.

Julien: You tell us that is no more notion of decibels, is no the notion of perception, it can affect everyone. I think that lot of people will be particularly careful this. Now I have two questions. How to it and then how to remedy it?

Hubert CHARTIN: I noticed. I didn't say there was no more decibel notion. The first problem is is always a decibel The level of signal received in the ears is important. But I think there are two things. There is the level of the signal, a little instantaneous, that we receive in an instant, and there is also the exposure to noise over time. And that, indeed, and I even believe that this in the work but normally we are supposed to limit to 120 dB.

Julien: That cool? Mm-hmm.

Hubert CHARTIN: So to let through a lot of things.

Julien: 130 130 is higher than of a church if you one meter from the bell.

Hubert CHARTIN: A disco is 115. A full-power walkman is 110. A horn is 105, for example. A strong walker is 95. When listen to music with your...

Julien: By walkman you just gave us an idea of your age and my age, since I understand what you're So for all our editors who don't know what it is, go to Perplexity or the ChatGPT and ask them what a walkman They'll you.

Hubert CHARTIN: Yes, sorry. It's documents that are a bit... It's been too long since I studied the subject. ⁓ It's Steve Jobs sending his daughter with a walkman who got the idea of the iPod

Julien: The iPod was the iPhone that made only music. Many people wondered why. I'm not sure that our listeners are all under 20 or 25 years so that's fine. 130 dB Crete. 130 dB is huge.

Hubert CHARTIN: Exactly. Excuse me, have some old Sorry, the listeners. No, so like a broken lets a lot of things Yes, it's a lot. And then there's the time, so it's the maximum, it's the limitation, but indeed there is also time for exposure during the day. But we can even in our iPhones, we are warned when we listen to too important the ear gets tired. So then the tips, it's indeed the tips.

Julien: So how did you that?

Hubert CHARTIN: If we realize that communication is deteriorated, must stop communication as soon as possible. And that's we advise especially in call In call have indicators. We developed a solution called WatchGuard, based on artificial With this solution, will be to characterize, detect and characterize acoustic and we will give a rating. So indeed, a rating according to the power of the incident, the duration and the criticality. One DTMF is an acoustic incident So DTMF (dual-tone multi frequency) speaks to DTMF is the bifrequency. When you type on a keyboard to make a choice in a call EDF, type 1, etc. It's a DTMF a bifrequency And can happen that in a communication, it happened in the audits, we detect unexpected DTMF. It's not pleasant, but it's not too loud, and normally it doesn't destroy the ear, but it's still a disturbance.

Julien: Mm-hmm. It's an explanation for all auditors.

Hubert CHARTIN: There are things, indeed, a larsen is much less pleasant, a carrier is much less pleasant, and then there are phenomena that we can't really detect. But if communication is of poor quality, you shouldn't hesitate to hang The person will hardly remember you in better condition. You should impose a communication in which you are not comfortable. I think you should take this habit.

Julien: So reflex of your headphones or your earphones is reflex, extremely natural, but extremely good for health.

Hubert CHARTIN: Yes, it's very yes, indeed, it's the first reflex. And to in good condition. So, it's funny because...

Julien: How do it? How do detect it? Apart from your technology? Your technology detects on call But since it affects everyone, do to call your company and ask DSI to call Wavetel to discover it? To do an audit?

Hubert CHARTIN: So, it's an extremely special the results we have, we have, I have 40 % audit under my but indeed, there are problems with the so it can generate an action against your operator, that is say, the signal that your operator is not good, is not of good quality, and indeed, the operator itself acoustic

Julien: Mm-hmm.

Hubert CHARTIN: So you have to be able to set up all the instrumentation to be able to say it comes from the operator it comes forward, it down, etc. So that's a job, very clearly. It can come from the equipment. It can be problem with your headphones. It can be a problem with the codecs. It noted that indeed in the transport of the word, we spend our time to digitize and to code. So when code, we adapt the signal for its transport. So basically...

Julien: Mm-hmm.

Hubert CHARTIN: When I speak to you see me on a PC, my voice will be numbered, will be coded to be adapted to its transmission decoded in front and will rewritten in audio But indeed, all these codings also have an influence. And they do have the same quality. So you have to careful with the codings that are used in the voice on IP. This is a little more for DSI. Indeed, more we compress, the more we deteriorate.

Julien: We're losing quality.

Hubert CHARTIN: Then there are configuration We're about big with big IT The IP is everywhere. We're in Teams now. We're with the IP But we've seen the configuration... We're not talking phone but companies in general. We spend our time with a headset, doing Teams, we only call on Teams. And we've also seen software configuration

Julien: We talk about the call but spending your day on Teams, like we do in all the big groups, that's it. Everyone is concerned about that.

Hubert CHARTIN: especially in the call centers, etc. So were things that were poorly programmed. So in fact, requires a strict attention to all the floors and that only experts can have. It would almost necessary to a kind of audit on these subjects to certify that an installation will be guaranteed quality and security of audio

Julien: Technically, you receive hundreds or millions of calls you analyze them to understand if there are problems and what they

Hubert CHARTIN: So today, it's a way collaborating with one of our clients, who is a major player in the French where they have call everywhere in France, and when they have problem, they send us the file. After we adapt. We even had a problem with a call that was linked to communication between the post and the helmet. The helmet was linked in a to the We developed an electronic, we installed it on 110 posts. and we did audits, we found where the came from. But fact, we are still on problems that can be extremely complex. And where do we control? We are lucky, our job is metrology, science. So we are used to putting place the instrumentation, the testing Of course, we know all the associated so the historical the IP with its different protocols. And are also to recover the interest what we call interest That is to to be able to to where there is a problem. here we are on the road, but it would also work for latency in computer latency that can generate... So latency is the delay, latency is transmission If we have transmission delay in the road, will generate problems. And will also problems if you work with the with consultations or applications. But need specific

Julien: Acoustic problems? Latency doesn't cause acoustic

Hubert CHARTIN: Latency can cause acoustic If you the packages late, will be difficult to reconstruct. There is latency to be to transmit the voice well. If you have too much latency, the voice is not well transmitted. Logically, Ethernet which the support of the transmission of the voice on IP, are supposed to be qualified in terms of latency before implementing the applications. I don't want to go into too detail because indeed ...

Julien: We can go back and talk about the engineers auditors of this podcast. You have the UR Wavetel to do an audit on the other side. But I ask myself question, as an entrepreneur, as a business ask myself question. Do I have be careful for my teams? Do I have to check this out or are we on a niche

Hubert CHARTIN: Oui, avec plaisir.

Julien: I hear that the problem's is it represents little appeal, but if there is a problem, represents a lot more appeal and a level of severity. As a company am guaranteed quality of work, I am guaranteed the health of my employees. How much does cost to do that? Is there barrier at important that prevents companies from doing it? How much does cost to appeal to this type of audit?

Hubert CHARTIN: It depends on the audit. We have been clients with judicial for 18 months. We understand that are mobilizing engineers and experts. We have two teasers on the subject. There is a budget associated. Normally, we are extremely reasonable It immediately us to understand the magnitude of the phenomenon and the gravity. A day of audit at Wavetel with engineers specialized in the subject. And with the right instrumentation, it depends on the instrumentation we have to implement. If we are on an infrastructure of a company, a PME, say 100-150 people, can imagine a budget of around 3,000, 4,000, 5,000 euros for a day of auditing. With the instrumentation, are on a capture or assurry IP it is quickly a budget 30,000 or 40,000 euros, so can be on very large-scale

Julien: Mm-hmm.

Hubert CHARTIN: That's gives a little bit of idea order. So it remains reasonable in relation to the risks.

Julien: Okay. If we go back to I to say, 150 people in a PME, we're about putting 20 euros per person to check a risk that could be a real health So we're on a budget that is reasonable.

Hubert CHARTIN: Exactly. And I would say, as an entrepreneur, I've always wanted to... So we have small company, and an ITP that joined a large group. Okay, okay. But I've always wanted my collaborators to best tools to ensure that they are well. and in addition today in terms of RSE, is still social environmental, it is still extremely important and I always paid attention to what the best tools to deliver their performance and it is part of the tools that we put the of our collaborators and as much as arrive, we do not to certify a computer network, we agree, with in addition the cyber so things that we can also do in passing, but indeed to be sure that

Julien: oui. Mm-hmm.

Hubert CHARTIN: Our collaborators have good tools to communicate in a world where we spend our time in the today. It's still extremely important. And then, as a company have the responsibility of the security of the collaborators.

Julien: So it's a question of prioritizing expenses for the company, but who should be alerted to the... I think the first person who comes to about this subject in the company, the question is no longer really asked.

Hubert CHARTIN: There real subject. Oui. Oui. Let's balance it. When we see what pay for a CMR we must be at 60 euros per person per month. So are at 700, 800 euros per collaborator. At Wavetel it's lot of money. At 30, we are not very big, we are small, 24,000.

Julien: Yeah. Oui, et... And then as an enterprise, invest in headsets, invest in phonic invest a lot in the real estate company that will the job, in cabins to make calls. So the end, extra expenses don't seem huge Yes.

Hubert CHARTIN: You choose the right headsets. You're bringing to another topic. We are also to help choose the right headsets. We are able to pass the tests, the tests are standardized. We have helped some of our customers choose the right headsets.

Julien: Because you certify some headsets rather than others? Okay, that's interesting. I'll you connect you with Safehear from which... ⁓

Hubert CHARTIN: It's also real problem.

Julien: nonoise is an investor which was established in this podcast as which offers boxes that will filter the voice and without latency allow two boxes to connect and without for blue in the industry to be able without latency live and without the need to the voice despite the 120 decibels around it. And when you said that latency does not a technical immediately thought of them because precisely one of the strengths of this type of solution is to be speak in very natural conditions and without latency, is very important I also for the acoustic so it's interesting. you collect the data of these incidents, do you have public information? How do that? that the general public, are here in a specialized Fighting Noise, we talk about noise, we have an attentive to this subject, but how does affect that this problem becomes a societal I have two questions, by the but when you say that it is so little known, and the second question that comes with it is, will it be over time because you were talking about hybrid

Hubert CHARTIN: So. So.

Julien: between the infrastructures of the past, Tipernis, etc. and infrastructures where the whole of the road is numbered, will it be reduced with time or will it increase? And why don't we know more about this kind of problem?

Hubert CHARTIN: Indeed, two questions. It's true that every time we worked on the subject, was a lot of apprehension from our customers about their collaborators. It's a subject on which they communicate with lot of reserve. In a call is a notion of reserve and people stop working. So we saw call on hold for 15 days because they considered that they did not have the security to work So it's extremely sensitive subject and on which they will not communicate. We see communications via CHST from time time, the hygiene and security So indeed there is an attention and there we are on call bank, insurance, etc.

Julien: And the cost becomes minimal. Mm-hmm.

Hubert CHARTIN: And indeed, it's almost the CSSTs are more receptive today on the subjects. The second question on heterogeneity, indeed. today we are to more more homogeneous It was more a problem that we had four or five years ago, let's And today there is still a rationalization. And then the engineers are the protocols are more more adapted, sharpened. So there is still a real... a real awareness of the problem of audio in applications. ⁓ if you, as a user, you see that at the end of each communication, you asked what was the audio of your call. So it's a kind of metric, we're for feedback from the user to try to understand at what level of satisfaction we

Julien: Wait. Indeed, can communicate with WhatsApp or other...

Hubert CHARTIN: We know how technically, it's called a score MOS. There is a score for the voice on IP, which is a score MOS of 1 5, which allows to determine the quality of the voice. And indeed, we also know how calculate it from the protocol

Julien: But it's to everyone. This metric or this question at the end of a WhatsApp conversation or other, and there been so many Skype and company, don't hesitate to give a real feedback, since it will allow to optimize the installations and infrastructures for the future.

Hubert CHARTIN: What? Exactly. Really. Yes, solution are extremely aware of the problem. And behind it, is also evolution of infrastructures, where we go up flow, etc. And so it also to fluidify the transport of information, transport of the voice and associated protocols. So we also have a network that does not stop rising in power and that facilitates, of course, the performance.

Julien: Are there laws in Europe on the subject for a particular that must impose on companies to work on this subject?

Hubert CHARTIN: There are indeed standardizations, there There are standards on headsets. clearly. The 130 dB So there standards on headsets. After that, are more or less efficient. We are able to measure with a robot, with a test strip, etc. But I think that indeed, each responsible, so it's more DSI, we agree, be aware that he to a real quality of service on these applications and that it goes through an expertise of the entire workstation. Indeed, we deliver the voice to the user and to the audio is extremely important.

Julien: I hear that the problem can be very serious, is not often a call for 1 million, but if there a problem, the problem can become much more common, much more frequent and have a very important for the health of the employees, that the cost is relatively low and therefore it is worth it. It's profitable for the health the employees of Fallah GS. There is no legal to There is an improvement of infrastructure globally, means that there may be fewer problems in future. the meantime, we are not in future, we have to take of now. And secondly, increase in number of hours spent on the on Teams, you said, we go to the corporate world, we easily 8 hours a day on Teams. on Teams or Google Meet. So in this case, increase the probability that there is a problem, even if technically the devices are more more reliable. This summary, I have a conversation that can go very quickly in the technical part, so I try to popularize as much as to bring everyone on this subject, is very serious in itself, niche but very serious and very important. I think it's good that as many people are aware and as many people talk about it. So is this summary right? Did I forget something important for our editors and listeners?

Hubert CHARTIN: No, no, no, it seems me to a good summary. I hope I'm not going too right, left, little bit in all directions, since the subject is complex and we can talk about for hours. But indeed, there are two things to remember. Never be content with bad communication. Really make the effort to understand what is happening or help each other. That is, not to accept, as you say, to work eight hours a day on a communication.

Julien: point.

Hubert CHARTIN: which is not... we can start by saying pleasant because it will have consequences and will have an effect. So it can have an immediate effect if the levels are too high and it can also an on the duration if we actually suffer, even without knowing, altered communication. That is extremely important. There is the idea of ​​consciousness and unconsciousness. So if we can suffer altered communication and not realize it. That, we were extremely surprised. It one of the audits that we did year and the person complained. And there is a phenomenon, from the moment we say that there an acoustic in a call we find it often, so there is also phenomenon where everyone begins to acoustic So fortunately, it's still relatively controlled. And we, the advantage we have is that we have entered the factual. And after, what is also important, even on the whatever the size of the company, is to optimize its computer infrastructure. Be sure that indeed ... we will not generate defects in the communications that are sent. So indeed, it goes through the right tools, it goes through an optimized Wi-Fi also, since we can also be disturbed by the part that linked to the computer So need to attention to whole information fact, quality of the communication, audio is a resultant. And that's we need to understand. And it works on all levels.

Julien: Hubert Chartin from Wavetel. think this subject will have opened the eyes or ears to maximum of people, a large percentage of the listeners of this podcast because I think it's a very unknown but it deserves to So I was delighted that you joined us today to talk about acoustic incidents in world of telecom. For the auditors and auditors, I tend to myself what they can do for you. I want to answer. vote and say if the communication was good or not because the MOS Score will help you. What can you do for the auditors? think you will have saved the audition and much more because we are about level of fatigue, of performance of many people who will ask the question and maybe open a bridge in their company. The best way to contact you is to contact on LinkedIn.

Hubert CHARTIN: Linkedin Yeah, Linkedin Very good.

Julien: Very well, I will your LinkedIn in the description of this episode. Thank you very Hubert, for this time. And if you have listened to this episode, I hope you enjoyed it. As we are on a subject that can go very far technically, and we also need to popularize, whether you are an engineer or not,

Hubert CHARTIN: With pleasure. ⁓

Julien: Feel free to comment, share, talk about and open the discussion. and make sure that we reduce these incidents to the maximum and why not to zero in future. Thank you very and I'll you week.

Hubert CHARTIN: Merci, avec plaisir.