Le bruit au bureau | Innovative Solutions for Acoustic Challenges at work

Julien (nonoise.club): Today, an episode where we will talk about noise, of course, but in a context that everyone knows, noise is the workplace. In the middle the workforce, talk about the vulnerability, but in the tertiary, it could also assimilated. The teleworkers often compare the calm of the house to the of the open space. To address the subject today, I have the pleasure of welcoming Stéphane Demguilhem the founder of A Cloud. Hello Stéphane. Nice to welcome you this podcast.

Stef Fondateur D'Acloud: Bonjour!

Julien (nonoise.club): When I say that companies call on employees to come back to the office, do make efforts to keep noise? Do you also that? That call on employees to come back to the office and that noise will be an issue?

Stef Fondateur D'Acloud: Sound is a challenge, most subjects concerning the quality of life at work. We see it quite clearly, especially in the crèches. The directors of crèches explain that they a of trouble retaining their teams, because these are places where is lot of noise due to children. will not prevent children from expressing themselves, laughing, crying or screaming. It's just about putting the teaching and staff in good conditions so that they don't get too tired and want to go back to work the next morning.

Julien (nonoise.club): I'm talking about Crash we're going into subject on the product. Can you introduce yourself in a words and explain what Cloud

Stef Fondateur D'Acloud: My name is Stéphane Demguilhem I the founder of A-cloud, a company that I created following the problems of sound that I faced in my former life as an entrepreneur. We had offices in which we had lot of sound sleep and since I could not find solutions in what was being done on the market, I already a small experience in the patent warehouse, research and development. I to get interested in all these acoustic and I developed a product called Cloud which responds to a solution that allows, sound in shared spaces. So it goes from the canteen to the open space, spaces, meeting We tried to develop a very efficient in connection with the FCBA that I breveted.

Julien (nonoise.club): FCBA?

Stef Fondateur D'Acloud: FCBA is a research on materials, and we are lucky to have a Bordeaux, dedicated to acoustics, and we work closely with them. Every time we offer a solution on the market, bringing to our customers, we evaluate by the FCBA

Julien (nonoise.club): We will come back to noise, but first a question that I asked the entrepreneurs and the founders, is why you do that? Why is it an important for you? You talked about the nuisances you had on work, but what touches you on this sector of noise?

Stef Fondateur D'Acloud: Well, interested me I like everything that is research and development. I have deposited lot of patents in the field of vegetative a process that is the lightest in the world in the world of vegetable and it has a little bit to all these problems of stock patents, research and development. In my old life, we had a big office that was quite important with problems of sound that were linked to the structure of building. had floor, concrete and concrete and were acoustic that interested me. example, when my collaborators were in the opposite direction of my office, which had 250 square I was at the back of the wave and there were these acoustic that made that even if they were I could hear everything that was in my office, and vice versa. So these phenomena started to interest me and amuse me. So, I started to learn about acoustic phenomena I made some publications, I submitted some patents, and then I joined the group of volunteer from AFNOR which became our compass, because every time do acoustic maintenance always ourselves on the minimum standard indicated by AFNOR. to guarantee the results of the we are charge So, the among the are two major subjects that concern It's what we call the indirect It's often linked to the acoustics of the piece, which the physical of the piece make, for example, will be reverberation, what we call echo. When in a piece there is a lot of reverberation, there will be a problem of intelligibility, of noise, of sound at the end of the day can be into physical like a tinnitus. And there's often what we call the "cocktail effect" that is, in a reverberating if there a small group of work that has trouble understanding they will naturally tend to raise the tone. which will cause the working group to the side. This well-known of acousticians is in the end, end in a room where no one hears each no one understands This is concerns the indirect that we have dealt with our Cloud Then there is a second effect in acoustic which is due to the direct And when we have two workplaces that are close, example, fact that a person is on the phone will disturb the person who is right next it. And in this case, we have no other solution than to create what we call screen We screening, that we will put small closets, net closets, which will have the interest of stopping the sound from one workstation to another.

Julien (nonoise.club): the famous jail that we find between the two

Stef Fondateur D'Acloud: In some cases, are still where use melamine. We started with idea of using the same material as what we use in our clouds, that is, an acoustic which has very good absorption quality and which will also allow us to develop small closures that the user will be to manage the gap. in to avoid this feeling of confinement that we often in the spaces of coworking where we will put people in a vast space, but we will lock them up in small boxes, little bit like chickens in a battery We wanted to avoid this phenomenon thanks to our closures that you can go and check out on our website. Closures allow to continue. to not hide the view between the different workplaces.

Julien (nonoise.club): So, a-cloud is first the clouds, so the ceiling, the cloud of clouds and the acoustic adder. From a scientific of you were talking about "ouate de cellulose" which comes...

Stef Fondateur D'Acloud: Yes, A for acoustics and Cloud... for cloud No, it's not cellulose, it's a PET is mainly of recycles plastic bottles bottle

Julien (nonoise.club): So it's recycled and the time completely organic and recyclable, organic and without chemicals etc. These requests that are made regularly on the work, this notion of recycling or this ecological of product.

Stef Fondateur D'Acloud: Irrecitable. Well, say that... I was in sustainable for many years, I am very attached And especially, every time we release a product from our workshops, ensure the inocuity of this product. That is say that will be evaluated by the FCBA again, the fact that our products do release any COV, no volatile

Julien (nonoise.club): You were when we met, that the acoustic that will absorb the noise or the noise of the office, you have evolved to other products that will teach you about sound.

Stef Fondateur D'Acloud: Yes, in the when I got interested in acoustic, I realized that there were three big rules to follow. You have to position yourself above the source of noise, because the noise, as it is carried by air tends to rise. In a room where is no air, there is no noise. Then you have avoid flat because every time you have a flat shape, tends to reverberate the sound. That's why our clouds are made with these shapes. They have a lot of circumvolutions that improve and amplify the acoustic And you have use fiber we in our clouds, have different densities of watts that allow us to absorb a wide range of acoustic And in doing so, we took part in one of the properties of the acoustic that we use, which is to light exactly like optical And if we can transmit light and send signals, it means that we can transmit information. So we adopted our clouds from a new range called the Connect range, which we will integrate sensors, for example, a sensor that will signal a degradation of air or a sensor that will signal a too high For example, this case, the cloud will react, it change color, example, will go to orange, it light up in orange. And if the nuisance persists, it will start to blink in red. And in doing we will work on what we call the nudge. is to that the goal of these clouds is to make the invisible visible. So the nuisance that seems invisible and we will not immediately perceive, the cloud will help us to modify our behavior. Let's say the who is in a conversation, doesn't always realize that he's bothering everyone around him, thanks to the clouds, he will have the information like, yes, indeed, I didn't realize it, but I'm bothering everyone in the months, so naturally I'm going slow down. In any case, this is the phenomenon that happening.

Julien (nonoise.club): more tact of the color of the cloud than of colleague who comes and cuts the phone call.

Stef Fondateur D'Acloud: Yes, well, the end, think most of time, it's not bad intentions, it's just communication problems. Often, when we give people opportunity to realize that they are in a behavior that bothers others, most of the time, they modify their behavior.

Julien (nonoise.club): The pedagogy is probably one of the most effective around the subject of noise, whatever the sector, but it's not a solution.

Stef Fondateur D'Acloud: That's what Americans call the nudge. These are two former Nobel Prize who developed this notion that the human is not rational. But if we give the right information in the right way at right time, will practically his behavior without realizing it. That is, without it being a constraint for him.

Julien (nonoise.club): On A Cloud, said you were in Bordeaux, you produce in France, that it?

Stef Fondateur D'Acloud: Yes, are in Bordeaux, produce our clouds are 100 % made in Charente-Maritime, since our workshop is located in Saint-Genis-de-Saint-Onge, so we manufacture everything ourselves in our workshop in Charente.

Julien (nonoise.club): Do you communicate on some numbers? Do you produce how many clouds a year?

Stef Fondateur D'Acloud: At the beginning, started very modestly. I that all our clouds are hand-made. So at the beginning, were able to produce about a dozen per month. Since then, with my partner, we have developed a whole bunch of steps that allow to simplify the manufacture of our clouds, since the envelopes are always hand-made. On other hand, cutoff of our watts is now digital. So we're now a capacity of easily 200 clouds per month.

Julien (nonoise.club): with uses that are not only in the tertiary, but also the possibility to work on the primary, by the work in workforce, example, there are also uses, according you, can be put place.

Stef Fondateur D'Acloud: Yeah, in the end, recently we did... So we make schools, canteens, business workplaces. Recently, we developed our product for SPAs. SPAs and swimming pools are also places where is lot of reverberation. Why? Because we are part of the fact that our product is insensitive to chlorine and hydrophobic.

Julien (nonoise.club): Mm-hmm.

Stef Fondateur D'Acloud: but it's true that have some industrialists who came to see us and say, listen, we have some shop-shop for example, we would like to your clouds in our workshops. So there I stopped right away by telling them that the clouds were not suitable for industrial On the hand, we got to work because we very listening to our customers. Most of features that we have developed, is precisely by listening to our customers. We developed a process called Acoustic Rain, reduces noise in an industrial example, a grocery store, are two or three posts that generate lot of noise. Most the other posts don't a lot of noise. So it's about equipping these posts to prevent them from coming... to most the workers working in the same environment. In the industry, we also noticed a phenomenon, that more more, study want to close to the industrial We have a world that produces noise and another that needs to calm. often we have this problem that we can solve with our solutions. And then, recently, we have also asked for in castles, in viticulture for bottle-setting Workers on bottle-setting for example, are subject to noise. The tinting of bottles, the machines that make the boxes, etc., are noise that an that generates lot of trouble. You know that there is a recent that showed that the staff who work in a shed or in a cellar, after 10 years exercise, they are likely to lose a quarter of their hearing. So it's a subject that affects a We were very interested in early childhood and now we realize that the silver economy, the EPA, the senior receiving establishments, are confronted with these problems because one out of two over 75 years have hearing problems. And for reasons of hygiene, ease of cleaning, we're going to these people in spaces with carnal. big windows, big volumes, so places where they are little lost, there will not be an acoustic adapted. And we realize that an old person who has hearing loss after a while, by force of being repeated, she will get a little tired of The crew can get tired of having to repeat non-stop. And there it poses a problem, since people tend to isolate in their rooms. and not wanting to leave, including for moment of Europa, which gives lot of work to the training So we are on these establishments to improve the acoustics.

Julien (nonoise.club): We will come back to the discussion in detail, but in fact it almost the following question, is the why now? Why now? Why do you think it's the right time as an entrepreneur, as founder of a cloud now to launch a company like a cloud?

Stef Fondateur D'Acloud: There was no particular because the I was just to solve the problem of sound that we had in our premises. And it's true that after the 50th person who told us by looking at the clouds, but I would like to equipment like that because I have problems in my offices, we said to why not create a company and do nothing that.

Julien (nonoise.club): Stop the locals and keep the clouds. Stop the locals, go ahead, be vegetalized and keep the clouds. What your vision in the end? You started with the acoustic reducing noise. You talked about the nudge and the evolution of clouds towards a form of signaling. You also talked about closures with the possibility of separating offices.

Stef Fondateur D'Acloud: Whoa. Whoa. But.

Julien (nonoise.club): What is your vision in the long even if you told me you do by chance, I imagine that you have a long-term in mind, in your opinion, 5 to 10 years, while the sound is increasing more more and that the awareness of noise in the open space or on work is what is your vision at the

Stef Fondateur D'Acloud: My vision is to into account the elements of the quality of life at work that allow us improve living together. We are attacking the acoustic, we are also in the quality of the air, we have also a module called the Sunshine that allows to very good quality of light also on the workstation. In the end, it is to make sure that When we are at work, we are in the best possible and we don't tend to think that we would better off working at home. Most people who are in space of co-working could very well work at home, but it's because for different reasons they prefer to work as team, they prefer to work in a working atmosphere, synergy with other companies, rarely because they are better off at their work than at home. I would like to this position a bit because we need put little bit logic in all this. When you are at work, you have be in good condition. It is very difficult to focus on a task when you have a problem of nuisance. We must not forget that the acoustic is very linked to our reptilian For example, if I am at my work and I need to and I hear a noise coming from behind. For our reptilian a noise coming from behind is a it's a sign of danger. So it's very difficult to focus on a task when you feel in danger, consciously or unconsciously. So all these phenomena lead me to think that we still a lot of work to if we listen to our customers to improve this environment, our work, improve what we call living together. And the exchanges also in the work Someone who is subject to nuisance will have a completely different from a person who will be in a rather comfortable

Julien (nonoise.club): Passionate always to discussion. So we're going close the questions and answers and open up more open So it's very interesting what you say about this evolution of the I come back lot to the notion of coming back to office and making sure that the office is really more comfortable than the house because it's it's one of the mentioned You work better at home, I'm not disturbed, etc. And we feel a real conflict. I am an entrepreneur. I was in a group, in a startup. There are two worlds that separate and the entrepreneurs want to people to the office. You see that? You see that it's complete to say that we have to improve the organization so that the collaborators come back and we don't what to do to get them back?

Stef Fondateur D'Acloud: We see on a because during the lockdown period, number people working on was the majority. And there are a lot of companies that tell that it is very difficult to get our teams back and keep them on the I think I read a study not long ago where 80 % of employees believe that their working is not suitable. So, frankly, it's a bit cold in the water, because we say to we're going deploy crazy energy to bring people to a job, and finally, we're not going to know the agency correctly enough so that people are in good conditions, simply to provide the best possible So it's true that...

Julien (nonoise.club): Totally. And telework, wouldn't be, home office, it wouldn't be a place where can improve acoustics because most offices at home are located in corners of room, in corners of living room, places where... And often feel that it's complicated in terms of acoustics, it's complicated in terms of light. During COVID, saw people working on tables to go over, so we can talk about muscular-skeletal but...

Stef Fondateur D'Acloud: I won't. To stop.

Julien (nonoise.club): There are no solutions to develop to improve these home acoustics.

Stef Fondateur D'Acloud: So, unfortunately, we are not structured to respond to a particular But it's true that I don't that in my office at home, I have a cloud with the sunshine. I some in my room. And the phenomenon that is quite strange is that the more we are going in a comfortable the more are going to intolerant. in other atmospheres. is to that when I go to eat with friends, I spend a night like that, I realize that the kitchen is a very noisy There is really...

Julien (nonoise.club): So you bring your clouds to your friends now. You bring your clouds in the

Stef Fondateur D'Acloud: When he comes to my office, even here in our premises, we in the village of Bordeaux. Our office is member of another office, the same surface, the same configuration. When enter our office, tell us that it is still much more comfortable. So it allows us to get know the village.

Julien (nonoise.club): Hello to the friends of the village by CA. I was in a Parisian who might need clouds. There a real subject in general. There are many materials and solutions, acoustic in general. I was talking about felt earlier, were talking about melamine and a little less noble How do you also attract your game's

Stef Fondateur D'Acloud: Yes, is a subject on it.

Julien (nonoise.club): with our products from a scientific view. You manage to bring debate on the subject of the quality of absorption to succeed in perhaps eliminating budgets that are, imagine, superior when we manufacture a more ecological, more local The budget must be more important than that of a Chinese of lower quality. So when you manage to bring the debate on this notion of quality, is it the acoustic that... What is the

Stef Fondateur D'Acloud: I had a grandmother who often me, I don't the means to buy at the right market. And what does mean? It means that if you want to a problem, have to use the best solutions possible to solve this problem.

Julien (nonoise.club): Right. I agree and disagree. I used the even if your grandmother used to often. Yes, I agree and agree. But in reality, as an entrepreneur, I agree with you. When I say I agree and disagree, many buyers lack the goal of the year. And finally, I have an anecdote, a great marketing who had bought ...

Stef Fondateur D'Acloud: No, but why do say that? Because every time we do a job, we commit to a goal to When we make a guess, first we make a diagnosis, we go to the client or we make a theoretical at a or we call an acoustician who will come and measurements, etc. Then So we're a study, we're we say, here you are, you are at this level in terms of time of reverberation, we're going to bring you here, so you're going to in rules with the regulation in force, we're going bring you to the minimum, the norm, if we can go beyond, we're going to beyond, and that's what we're to, that is to that we write We say, your reverberation we will divide it by two or we will bring in time and we commit to So we send this presentation with the front and the objective with the doubt. Once the client has accepted the doubt that the clouds are installed or that our solutions are in place, do not send the bill for now. We will return to the client. to validate the fact that the objective that we have set has been achieved. We do a second presentation called Back to the Workplace and we send this presentation with the final That's why we committed.

Julien (nonoise.club): There is commitment, impact, real scientific With sonometers, I imagine we will see an acoustician or least a...

Stef Fondateur D'Acloud: Exactly. So we call on acousticians because we don't want to judged. And that's what allows me to arrive almost every morning at the office while I'm swimming. Because I know that every day, every time we take of a job, we don't let go the business, so we haven't solved the client's And all our teams know that. And a great pride for us. Until now, have always managed to a little bit beyond what we had promised. And I know that doesn't a month without having a client who thanks for our intervention. And that's true, it's a chance to be in this sector of to be to bring well-being. That's what we brought.

Julien (nonoise.club): It's a real impact. It will interesting to interview people in this podcast, real users who suffer from noise, users who may also have problems. I plan to interview people around autism, for example. are a lot of people who have health whom noise is not just a nuisance like another, but a tragedy, real pain.

Stef Fondateur D'Acloud: to live from this. you It can be a pain.

Julien (nonoise.club): So, for once, it's true that there is a real impact that motivates everyday life. After, I'm not sure that arriving by whistling at the office, it's not a sound for your colleagues when they at office, but it's okay, you have everywhere, so you stop at the door, so as you're fine. At Cloud, you are in the village of Baisseil Bordeaux, do consider it a startup or is it a regional

Stef Fondateur D'Acloud: I'll at the door.

Julien (nonoise.club): What you see? What the image of your work? What you created? Or what you don't about?

Stef Fondateur D'Acloud: I always myself a startup in the spirit that we keep developing, doing research and development. The clouds that we proposed in 2020 have nothing to do with the clouds that we propose today. We are trying to give different features, have developed applications that allow to simplify. and bring real answers to real issues generated by our customers. For example, with our connected to guide our customers in a virtuous to train them in a virtuous example, I often well, you have a very large space, either we put a strong density of clouds and we will solve your problem, whatever the behavior of people, we will do something more intelligent. which forces a certain introspection, but we will put less of classic and we will position one or two connected which will react according to the noise and especially the behavior of people. example, in an open space, if they interrupt from one office to another, feel behavior problems. It's not so much an acoustic of the room. And with these connected inform people on

Julien (nonoise.club): and pedagogy.

Stef Fondateur D'Acloud: the noise they emit towards others, and the noise... We are always sensitive to the noise we emit towards us. But must also aware of the noise we emit towards others. And clouds help with that. And so, when the client accepts it, we will put less, a lower of clouds, but with two or three connected placed in good places. It will allow, hand, to lighten their bill. Because I bring solutions, I'm not here to sell products. The most important for me is that. and they will train their teams in a virtuous circle that will make think a little bit about their behavior and so on.

Julien (nonoise.club): But I'm back to the question of why a startup is interesting. Oriented solutions. as a person who has product management, I like to hear that. Oriented users too. And then this scientific I notice that as founder of Nonoise, scientific there many founders of startups that offer solutions against noise against sound are... do PhDs, really have a very scientific And besides, it even a problem. There are a lot of investors or people who say, it's a sector on which I have trouble finding an approach, I have trouble understanding the solutions, because it's very scientific. So it's both sides. Zero bullshit to say, I have a scientific to my product and I love it. I think it's a good example. For final for the buyer, solution should be as scientific as it is behind. Do you agree with that or not? Because it's a real problem we have on the noise.

Stef Fondateur D'Acloud: I agree. I'm a novice in acoustics. I studied agriculture, botany, and physics. I spent the majority of my career working in the vegetable industry. I spent many years my life on the roofs of buildings. in China, France, and the United States. These acoustic really interested in this field. When I read the first acoustic studies by acousticians, I thought, it's impossible, it's impossible to So started to look at acousticians who would this approach, and I like it.

Julien (nonoise.club): I don't understand anything. We will interview some acousticians for an answer. I agree with that approach. And it's return that I have a lot too. I think we all need work together on the subject to democratize the approach.

Stef Fondateur D'Acloud: The more, the more it is. And it's physics. When we're in a room and we're going to measure the reverberation it sum up to? We're going blow up a balloon or we're to an explosion and we're going measure the time that this explosion to reduce 60 decibels. That's going to give us a reverberation The reverberation the will be. the will be discomfort, reverberation. So to fight against this time of reverberation, we must put what we call equivalent absorption air, is say, materials that, depending on the surface and their absorption will bring this time of reverberation to an acceptable Well, when we measure the time of reverberation in a room, we will simply calculate what is the volume of absorption that is needed. to this reverberation to a reasonable And we can define this in different clouds. It's quite simple.

Julien (nonoise.club): The acoustic for the bad guys. But it's perfect because you have to democratize all that. We're at the end of the interview. I found it very interesting to discuss the subject. I hope that more more people will be in that because it's very democratic that we can put place everywhere. I have two questions to finish. In two senses. What can you do for our listeners?

Stef Fondateur D'Acloud: You

Julien (nonoise.club): who might in your product and vice versa, what can listeners of this podcast for you?

Stef Fondateur D'Acloud: What I can do is contact me, just put the link. The more project is technical and complex, the more I have fun answering. But most of the time, can even have people who are in distress because they are in a daily You have to know that when you enter a restaurant or a restaurant where the noise bothers you, you make a meal. They are there all day.

Julien (nonoise.club): Okay.

Stef Fondateur D'Acloud: So it's that it's problematic. One out of two doesn't come back to a restaurant where the noise bothers them. That is to that the restaurant owner will make enormous to make local food and so on and customers will not come back simply because they will not thought about this acoustic So that, every time you, if among your listeners there are people who are confronted with sound pollution I would be perfectly OK to help them find a solution.

Julien (nonoise.club): It's a real big subject. And if you to Nonoise and this podcast, you will find a solution with the best conditions. We will We will see that. And what can the listeners do for you?

Stef Fondateur D'Acloud: That would impossible, of course. The auditors we have equipped, if there are they can testify to the acoustic of our products. And they can also vigilant. parents of the students can be vigilant in conditions in which their children will eat in the canteen. Just a little aside on that. The meal time for children should be a cut in their learning day. And I plead that this meal time be sanctified. However, often, will put children in such a noisy that it will be the most stressful of day for So I plead that there is a sound to not exceed in a canteen, as well for the staff. the canteen and so on, for children. So that the 45 minutes of attention that can pretend in the afternoon, will be easy, rather than having children who are exhausted or tired because they have been subjected to too acoustic pressure.

Julien (nonoise.club): There so many cases of So for those who watch this podcast in video, we see a beautiful cloud and a blue-white-red behind Stéphane, but do not to discover the site a-cloud.fr for ACLOUD to discover the products. We part of NoNoise and this podcast and Stéphane will do the best conditions possible. We find you on LinkedIn also to find you, Stéphane Demguilhem

Stef Fondateur D'Acloud: Wee.

Julien (nonoise.club): And then, you make us feedback if you already these solutions or others. The goal of nonoise is to have as much feedback as try to collectively solve this problem of sound noise pollution. So it's great if we can as much feedback as Stéphane, thank you very for this moment together. And then, well, listen, I wish you the best for a cloud. If it's a startup, I wish you scalability and a maximum of clouds, always produced in France, but little everywhere, in the workplaces, in France and elsewhere. I wish you the best. Thank you very much. And then I tell all, see very soon. Thank you, Stephane. Bye.

Stef Fondateur D'Acloud: Thank you for your invitation. Goodbye.